Ok, goodness I'll watch but there is no comparison. Tolkien is light. Light in the darkness. Sublime. Martin is human widom and human mistakes, but again, I won't specify anything I think is a mistake from someone I know who is not here.
I gave and then repeated two beliefs of GRRM that I think are wise. I don't think you really need me to repeat again. Do you deny that my two cited beliefs are wise?j I know you don't deny the one on regime change, and again, he was there many years before 9/11 and Iraq.
OK, OK, wait...you may be referring to Tyrion. Who, as you may know, is almost universally considered to frequently voice the thoughts of George, though George will neither confirm nor deny this to my knowledge.
But Tyrion is wise. He messes up, goes through a drunk phase,
spoiler alert.....stop if you have read A Song of Ice and Fire.....
kills an abusive father - but one he believes will continue to commit murder if not killed - mistakenly supports a woman who is actually not only hyper-woke (crucify anyone who owned a slave) but is actually genocidal (George does not realize how much Dany is like Hillary, heh.) - - But Tyrion is often wise and when he is not he learns.
I'm not referring to anyone. I'm saying cynicism does not equal wisdom.
I'm not here criticizing GoT. I am criticizing GRRM. And I'm a big believer in separating art from artist. Artists are capable of creating things moving, profound, wise and deep. But it does not mean they themselves are.
've said GRRM is a mix and I won't discuss faults. I've said he has them. It seems like you might be saying that if a person is "unwise" in some way then they could not have not made wise statements. I've said that GRRM has said wise things. I have not called him "generally wise", "always wise" or even "a wise person".
As for separating, I know GRRM well enough and have heard him say enough to know he deeply believes the two pieces of wisdom I attributed to him, which are also both illustrated in his books.
Actually, you said <<"Artists are capable of creating things moving, profound, wise and deep. But it does not mean they themselves are.">> Sticking with writers (musicians and artists are a different story) I have to admit, I'm not sure I see how this is true. Well, except that the writer is a mix of "wise person" and "foolish person" which is the human condition after all.
In fact, let's go to today's quote about the human heart and the line. The line is also there in the heart between foolish and wise.
Evidence for anything in the post I replied to. cyniciam, nihilism, eyebrow...anything :)
I did go deeper in thought. Here is what I believe:
I am 100 percent convinced through reading of many books and stories that GRRM really understands people. I am also near-100 percent convinced that it is impossible to understand people as well as he does and be far-left. Could be left, but not far-left.
It just does not go together. There is a cluelessness about the far-left. GRRM lacks that cluelessness.
I would say the same about any writer whose stories display insight into human nature Joss Whedon displays that (to a bewildering degree). Stephen King displays that. But it is also clear that modern politics has either broken the brains of several of them or they are cowards, fearing the woke Left and aping their talking points.
Either way, these are not people to be admired. They have or had a talent. That's it. Separate the art from the artist. I learned this a very long time ago.
How unwise artists tap into wisdom? I don't know. The complicated nature of people. I would guess the talent enables that insight, but another part of them gloms onto said politics. Then sets in the cognitive dissonance, when the world refuses to cooperate with their ideas of what "should be," and continues to be "what it is."
Hmmm... not sure we are talking about exactly the same thing here.
I believe it is possible to admire some aspects of a person, without admiring every aspect of a person. I believe that non-Christians can have wisdom. I believe a person on the left can have some wisdom, though I do not think they are wise in all things. But who is wise in all things?
Of course I think conservatives have substantial political wisdom and leftists lack substantial political wisdom. But I think most are trying to be kind. They are just mistaken about what is really kind in the long run.
Did you see Clever Pseudonym's post about McCarthyism vs. Woke. I bet you can understand McCarthyism. I can. It is just that I understand Woke to be similar to McCarthyism. - - One day I woke up and saw I was a classical liberal and saw the meaning of freedom of speech. I have to admit it took the Woke acting like they do to help me see that. I get why the Woke think it is wrong to restrict "dangerous speech". They are incorrect because they and no other human can correctly judge "dangerous" (well..."fire in a crowded theater" aside...but you get what I mean.) So, generally, I don't dispise the hears of most of the Woke, I just think they are confused.
Now, the worst evil doers, the heads of the Democrat party, heads of Communist parties in other countries, that is another story. They will do any almost evil to hold onto power. But I am talking about the average leftist, not those evil power brokers. My belief: The average leftist means well, but is mistaken. The average leftist can have some wisdom despite lack of political wisdom.
Would you counsel a Christian soldier bunking with a leftist that his mate is completely lacking in wisdom and not to be admired for anything? What if his mate is a guy who would fall on a grenade but has been suckered in by thinking he is non-prejudiced and so must vote for the left? I think people can make political mistakes and still be substantially good.
All have sinned...but where is the heart line?....everyone has both good and evil in their hearts...everyone is both admirable and not admirable. There are substantially good people on both the right and left. There are also substantially evil people on both the right and left. Mistaken people do not lack all wisdom, do not lack all goodness.
You are trying to come up with some kind of "rule" that covers all situations. All I am doing is remarking on writers with real talent and insight into the human condition, yet publically give credence to woke talking points. That's it. I'm not even trying to find some kind of general application to lay on all people for all times and occupations, forever and ever, amen.
Also, being left-aligned in your politics does not automatically make you a sinner, either. Also way too general an attempt to apply to this that I am not trying to do.
We are talking about writers and artists. That's it.
And for them, again, I seek to separate the art from the artitst. Branching out of that, you are attempting a conversation I'm not trying to have here.
And for myself, I do not need to admire or like them as people in general to admit they do good work in those fields, to admire that work. The world of art is full of people who are not admirable, or even despicable, yet still produce great work.
I absolutely do not have to admire them, or even like them, to see value in their art.
I did not say I "admire" GRRM "in general". I said I admire his talent, I admire his ability to create realistic characters, and I admire two pieces of insight he has into life. All reasonable statements, I think.
OK, I can admire a painting and believe its creator is totally unwise. I cannot admire the characters and ideas in GRRMs work and believe he is totally unwise. Nor do I say he is totally wise and admirable. So, I do not agree with you regarding writers.
Another semantic thing - I usually speak with you assuming you come from an Evangelical standpoint. You said, "Also, being left-aligned in your politics does not automatically make you a sinner". I was using "sinner" in the Evangelical way - "all have sinned".
Everyone is a sinner in that sense. You implied that that being Left-aligned is somehow specifically sinful. If you do, I disagree. You can be factually wrong without actually sinning. Are there aspects of Left ideology that are sinful? Absolutely. But just merely being identified with the Left does not make you by default sinful as a result of that. All depends on the particular point being discussed.
I can admire the work of an artist yet at the same time believe them a fool. History is replete with them. I think GRRM absolutely is a fool. Yet at the same time, a talented writer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0 GRRM vs JRRT
Ok, goodness I'll watch but there is no comparison. Tolkien is light. Light in the darkness. Sublime. Martin is human widom and human mistakes, but again, I won't specify anything I think is a mistake from someone I know who is not here.
"Human wisdom." Embracing cynicism, bordering on nihilism, with one eyebrow archly raised, is not necessarily wisdom.
Evidence?
Evidence of what, that cynicism=/=wisdom? What evidence would you like?
And if that is the game now, I would in turn like to see your evidence that cynicism IS wisdom.
But I did not say cynicism is wisdom.
I gave and then repeated two beliefs of GRRM that I think are wise. I don't think you really need me to repeat again. Do you deny that my two cited beliefs are wise?j I know you don't deny the one on regime change, and again, he was there many years before 9/11 and Iraq.
OK, OK, wait...you may be referring to Tyrion. Who, as you may know, is almost universally considered to frequently voice the thoughts of George, though George will neither confirm nor deny this to my knowledge.
But Tyrion is wise. He messes up, goes through a drunk phase,
spoiler alert.....stop if you have read A Song of Ice and Fire.....
kills an abusive father - but one he believes will continue to commit murder if not killed - mistakenly supports a woman who is actually not only hyper-woke (crucify anyone who owned a slave) but is actually genocidal (George does not realize how much Dany is like Hillary, heh.) - - But Tyrion is often wise and when he is not he learns.
I'm not referring to anyone. I'm saying cynicism does not equal wisdom.
I'm not here criticizing GoT. I am criticizing GRRM. And I'm a big believer in separating art from artist. Artists are capable of creating things moving, profound, wise and deep. But it does not mean they themselves are.
've said GRRM is a mix and I won't discuss faults. I've said he has them. It seems like you might be saying that if a person is "unwise" in some way then they could not have not made wise statements. I've said that GRRM has said wise things. I have not called him "generally wise", "always wise" or even "a wise person".
As for separating, I know GRRM well enough and have heard him say enough to know he deeply believes the two pieces of wisdom I attributed to him, which are also both illustrated in his books.
Actually, you said <<"Artists are capable of creating things moving, profound, wise and deep. But it does not mean they themselves are.">> Sticking with writers (musicians and artists are a different story) I have to admit, I'm not sure I see how this is true. Well, except that the writer is a mix of "wise person" and "foolish person" which is the human condition after all.
In fact, let's go to today's quote about the human heart and the line. The line is also there in the heart between foolish and wise.
Barnes and Elias in every heart.
Evidence for anything in the post I replied to. cyniciam, nihilism, eyebrow...anything :)
I did go deeper in thought. Here is what I believe:
I am 100 percent convinced through reading of many books and stories that GRRM really understands people. I am also near-100 percent convinced that it is impossible to understand people as well as he does and be far-left. Could be left, but not far-left.
It just does not go together. There is a cluelessness about the far-left. GRRM lacks that cluelessness.
I would say the same about any writer whose stories display insight into human nature Joss Whedon displays that (to a bewildering degree). Stephen King displays that. But it is also clear that modern politics has either broken the brains of several of them or they are cowards, fearing the woke Left and aping their talking points.
Either way, these are not people to be admired. They have or had a talent. That's it. Separate the art from the artist. I learned this a very long time ago.
How unwise artists tap into wisdom? I don't know. The complicated nature of people. I would guess the talent enables that insight, but another part of them gloms onto said politics. Then sets in the cognitive dissonance, when the world refuses to cooperate with their ideas of what "should be," and continues to be "what it is."
That's also why many of them tend to be angry.
Hmmm... not sure we are talking about exactly the same thing here.
I believe it is possible to admire some aspects of a person, without admiring every aspect of a person. I believe that non-Christians can have wisdom. I believe a person on the left can have some wisdom, though I do not think they are wise in all things. But who is wise in all things?
Of course I think conservatives have substantial political wisdom and leftists lack substantial political wisdom. But I think most are trying to be kind. They are just mistaken about what is really kind in the long run.
Did you see Clever Pseudonym's post about McCarthyism vs. Woke. I bet you can understand McCarthyism. I can. It is just that I understand Woke to be similar to McCarthyism. - - One day I woke up and saw I was a classical liberal and saw the meaning of freedom of speech. I have to admit it took the Woke acting like they do to help me see that. I get why the Woke think it is wrong to restrict "dangerous speech". They are incorrect because they and no other human can correctly judge "dangerous" (well..."fire in a crowded theater" aside...but you get what I mean.) So, generally, I don't dispise the hears of most of the Woke, I just think they are confused.
Now, the worst evil doers, the heads of the Democrat party, heads of Communist parties in other countries, that is another story. They will do any almost evil to hold onto power. But I am talking about the average leftist, not those evil power brokers. My belief: The average leftist means well, but is mistaken. The average leftist can have some wisdom despite lack of political wisdom.
Would you counsel a Christian soldier bunking with a leftist that his mate is completely lacking in wisdom and not to be admired for anything? What if his mate is a guy who would fall on a grenade but has been suckered in by thinking he is non-prejudiced and so must vote for the left? I think people can make political mistakes and still be substantially good.
All have sinned...but where is the heart line?....everyone has both good and evil in their hearts...everyone is both admirable and not admirable. There are substantially good people on both the right and left. There are also substantially evil people on both the right and left. Mistaken people do not lack all wisdom, do not lack all goodness.
You are trying to come up with some kind of "rule" that covers all situations. All I am doing is remarking on writers with real talent and insight into the human condition, yet publically give credence to woke talking points. That's it. I'm not even trying to find some kind of general application to lay on all people for all times and occupations, forever and ever, amen.
Also, being left-aligned in your politics does not automatically make you a sinner, either. Also way too general an attempt to apply to this that I am not trying to do.
We are talking about writers and artists. That's it.
And for them, again, I seek to separate the art from the artitst. Branching out of that, you are attempting a conversation I'm not trying to have here.
And for myself, I do not need to admire or like them as people in general to admit they do good work in those fields, to admire that work. The world of art is full of people who are not admirable, or even despicable, yet still produce great work.
I absolutely do not have to admire them, or even like them, to see value in their art.
I did not say I "admire" GRRM "in general". I said I admire his talent, I admire his ability to create realistic characters, and I admire two pieces of insight he has into life. All reasonable statements, I think.
OK, I can admire a painting and believe its creator is totally unwise. I cannot admire the characters and ideas in GRRMs work and believe he is totally unwise. Nor do I say he is totally wise and admirable. So, I do not agree with you regarding writers.
Another semantic thing - I usually speak with you assuming you come from an Evangelical standpoint. You said, "Also, being left-aligned in your politics does not automatically make you a sinner". I was using "sinner" in the Evangelical way - "all have sinned".
Everyone is a sinner in that sense. You implied that that being Left-aligned is somehow specifically sinful. If you do, I disagree. You can be factually wrong without actually sinning. Are there aspects of Left ideology that are sinful? Absolutely. But just merely being identified with the Left does not make you by default sinful as a result of that. All depends on the particular point being discussed.
I can admire the work of an artist yet at the same time believe them a fool. History is replete with them. I think GRRM absolutely is a fool. Yet at the same time, a talented writer.
The dichotomy of man, it is a thing.
ROAR!!!! Oh...this thing was soooo great! Thank you, thank you, thank you
Best line ever:
"C S Lewis and I were just discussin how you and Jon Snow both know nothin"
I think my neighbors hear in Budapest had to wonder about the screams (of laughter) coming from my apartment.
Worst part was of course that rap-Tokien defends himself so poorly and inaccurately (basically my sales are better).
Oh..and bad character names in Tolkien???...what is rap-GRRM thinking???
I mean "Proudfoot" vs "Daenerys"'? "Aragorn" vs. "Jon Snow". etc. I know who wins.
edit was to omit what I said about "Larped". I found out it was LARPed on a second viewing.
Thought you would like it. :)