As someone who has been on Internet forums since the “vi versus emacs” wars (if you know, you know), I want to say a kind word for JonF. He doesn’t seem like a bad guy at all. At worst, he’s seems like he’s maybe just another contrarian keen to fight over details—a type who’s been on Internet forums since the beginning, long before the m…
As someone who has been on Internet forums since the “vi versus emacs” wars (if you know, you know), I want to say a kind word for JonF. He doesn’t seem like a bad guy at all. At worst, he’s seems like he’s maybe just another contrarian keen to fight over details—a type who’s been on Internet forums since the beginning, long before the moms and other assorted muggles got on. Pain in the ass or not, we should be thankful we have him.
I like Jon a lot. If anything, he has original and challenging perspectives, even when I disagree with him (often). A world apart from the wokesters, whose arguments are trite to the point of boredom.
I think that Jon main point is: "our world is a fallen one, and if you think our times are more fallen than others, you are deluded". Which is worth some thinking.
This is correct, but my beef with him is not usually over the "more fallen" aspect, which is true, but the fact that the fallenness has taken more harmful and ubiquitous forms, and that the consensus to resist it has largely been lost.
Perhaps, but I think you underestimate the iniquity of antiquity. I've come to realize that, despite the elite veneer of the Separatist, Puritan, Anglian, Quaker and Roman Catholic presence in North American, it was for the most part a very profane space, filled with godless planters who loved a wine bibbing parson hunting hounds with them on Sunday afternoons, while the mass of "low whites" had little to do with even the formalities of such a veneer of faith -- having no money to pay the fees for a marriage license or the tolls to get to the church. The Great Awakening was virtually illegal and often persecuted, which is of course when faith burns most brightly. Sure, we're a ways down hill now, but its not so unique. As to New England, a majority of passengers even on the Mayflower were Strangers, not Saints.
No real argument from me on that, but I would point out that mass communication and carry-around technology have both lowered the bar and universalized the results in ways that weren't possible even 50 years ago, let alone 150. Human sinfulness has not in and of itself gotten worse, but our ability to broadcast and amplify it has become infinitely more powerful. It surely means something when some of the worst people in the world are in command of its largest and most powerful megaphone.
As someone who has been on Internet forums since the “vi versus emacs” wars (if you know, you know), I want to say a kind word for JonF. He doesn’t seem like a bad guy at all. At worst, he’s seems like he’s maybe just another contrarian keen to fight over details—a type who’s been on Internet forums since the beginning, long before the moms and other assorted muggles got on. Pain in the ass or not, we should be thankful we have him.
Get well soon!
As someone who said he has a liking for Brandon Sanderson, Jon can't be all bad 😄
Here's to his speedy recovery! 🥂
"vi vs emacs"
yes
I like Jon a lot. If anything, he has original and challenging perspectives, even when I disagree with him (often). A world apart from the wokesters, whose arguments are trite to the point of boredom.
I think that Jon main point is: "our world is a fallen one, and if you think our times are more fallen than others, you are deluded". Which is worth some thinking.
This is correct, but my beef with him is not usually over the "more fallen" aspect, which is true, but the fact that the fallenness has taken more harmful and ubiquitous forms, and that the consensus to resist it has largely been lost.
Perhaps, but I think you underestimate the iniquity of antiquity. I've come to realize that, despite the elite veneer of the Separatist, Puritan, Anglian, Quaker and Roman Catholic presence in North American, it was for the most part a very profane space, filled with godless planters who loved a wine bibbing parson hunting hounds with them on Sunday afternoons, while the mass of "low whites" had little to do with even the formalities of such a veneer of faith -- having no money to pay the fees for a marriage license or the tolls to get to the church. The Great Awakening was virtually illegal and often persecuted, which is of course when faith burns most brightly. Sure, we're a ways down hill now, but its not so unique. As to New England, a majority of passengers even on the Mayflower were Strangers, not Saints.
No real argument from me on that, but I would point out that mass communication and carry-around technology have both lowered the bar and universalized the results in ways that weren't possible even 50 years ago, let alone 150. Human sinfulness has not in and of itself gotten worse, but our ability to broadcast and amplify it has become infinitely more powerful. It surely means something when some of the worst people in the world are in command of its largest and most powerful megaphone.
That it does. Now we have to think about how to seize the microphone, or at least make better use of it.