That's right. Tim Scott is an affirmative action candidate. He would be running a North Charleston Burger King in real life just as George W. Bush would have been a Vice-President of a Houston bank because he was son of a president. Only some are called by the elite to do great things. The rest of us get to grind it out.
in Mike Pence's defence re: that Greg Price tweet, here is the dialogue:
Tucker: "Every city in America has become worse over the past few years... Your concern is that Ukraine doesn't have enough tanks... Where's the concern for America in that?"
Pence: "That's not my concern."
it seems like Pence was responding "that's not my concern" to the question about "your concern is that Ukraine doesn't have enough tanks"
I think it is right up there with Gerald Ford's "There is no Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe". He must have been thinking of something else, such as the real resistance to the Soviets in Eastern Europe.
Old thread but I can't let that one go. When the Soviet tanks invaded Prague in 1968, they stayed through the 70s and beyond. Nothing in the Soviet Union, nor Eastern Europe was the way it was under Stalin, a unique horror in history who killed far more than Hitler. But it was still bad. "No Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe". Ok, Tito was not exacty dominated. So, fair for Yugolavia and also fair for Romania. Not otherwise.
Carlson is a demagogue loon who babbles rightwing talking points , propaganda and barefaced lies. Sure there's audience for that, but like the old Jerry Springer Show it's a boutique taste - with a lot of class- all low.
Sure seems like he asked sharp questions that exposed the candidates' weaknesses. That would be a service to us all, and I don't know what you are rambling about.... :)
Lol -- Carlson was just about the only national conservative who actually challenged the standard right wing talking points! I don't think he's the loon here.
That is his chief value. The Republican Party and the Conservative Movement has become sterile in its thinking for over thirty years and had become similar to 1970s liberalism.
What lies did he tell, Jon? I saw a glorious massacre of garden variety chamber of commerce RINOs whose careers/stances are long past their sell date. The culture war is real. And warhawkery and Russia as the biggest bad is long past sunset.
Jon, Carlson was a writer before he was a TV star. In the late 1990, Carlson actually exposed George W. Bush's religiosity as phony either in Vanity Faire or The Atlantic. I forget which. Carlson is a free-thinker. Having the net worth of $400 million, he can afford to think freely.
uhh with the main difference being centuries of intertwined history and a country on their doorstep vs a country on the other side of the globe most Americans couldnt find on a map.
But they did it. Sucks for the Ukes, but they live in a tough neighborhood. Other than Boomer brain damage from hitting your head on the bottom of your desk during duck and cover drills in your youth, what reason do you have for thinking it should be our problem?
Well, we actually DID sign the Budapest Memorandum whereby we, the UK and the Russkies, did agree to protect Ukraine’s territorial integrity if they gave up their nukes- nukes stationed there by the USSR back in the day.
Would that be the same agreement where we agreed not to expand NATO and then did it anyway or a different treaty? I lose track of all of our perfidity.
And did the U.S. protect Ukraine's territorial integrity when we paid for a coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and replace him with one of our puppets?
Because of the split of the Senate and the Modern Filibuster, the ERA isn't going anywhere in spite of 80(!) percent popular support, but these Ukraine poll numbers could definitely impact a presidential election so I wonder if that's why candidates are going to sound squishy even if they might personally agree with the take of someone like Carlson.
Only very few favor open war between USA and Russia.
The simple truth is that the war would have ended in March 2022 without the US intervention. All the lives lost would have been spared. The money wasted would have been saved. And it wouldn't have mattered to the US (as opposed to the US empire) one bit.
The smart play for candidates is as the Peace Candidate. The only reason to be the War Candidate like Pence is to placate the defense contractors.
Pence is playing for a favorable obituary from the left-wing press like The New York Times and The Washington Post. He's smart enough to know he's as done as a Donald Trump T-bone steak.
If PBS is reporting it there’s a reason. My DH watches MSM and we wake up to NPR every morning; if people are supporting it it’s because of the ridiculously biased way the media are reporting on it.
That may be true but i don't think it's here or there for a potential presidential candidate.
The reason, I think is social media. The Hutchinsons and Pences of the world could and would say whatever they want in a tucker carlson interview like this in previous generations. Now they know that if they tell Carlson and his viewers what they want to hear and it enables them to win the nomination, it will just get clipped and sent around during the general when they're trying to pivot and attract the moderates they need to actually win.
It's just much less easy now, if not totally impossible, to do the traditional method of appealing to the base in the primaries then tacking to the center for the general.
I get your point but television has been around for quite awhile. Politicians have always had to say what the base has wanted in order to get the nomination; the question was always who were they lying to, the base or the gen pop? Previously it was the base, now it had better be the gen pop. Republicans have always lied to the base and then did less than nothing for them once in office. We’ve had enough.
But mostly the only way clips of conflicting statements got brought up is if jon Stewart's crew on the daily show dug them up. There just weren't the consequences there are now. Now, your opponent will save the clips and endlessly share them on social media.
So the statements of pence and Hutchinson rod is complaining about is really an example of them having to lie to you less.
You’re right about social media of course but remember too that political advertising saturates the airwaves and uses very artful editing in their attack ads...I never listen to the noise but I’m sure I am unusual in that regard.
I won't object to a difference of degree argument. I guess I'm just saying that the degree of intensity has ratcheted up with social media to almost make it a difference of kind.
I mean, congresspeople have always bloviated at hearings. Now, however, the response by the person testifying doesn't even matter. All they want is the video of them owning the other side to post to Twitter and the Facebook what fighters they are....
If American soldiers were dying at the front in Ukraine, you can bet support for the war would diminish rapidly. Americans are very soft and would not countenance heavy casualties. Americans would squeal if income taxes went up one percent.
The U.S. needs to reinstate the draft and conscript everyone from 18 to 50 to be sent to Ukraine to fight for "Democracy." It's not right that the Ukrainians alone should be doing all the fighting and dying. That will get everyone focused on the war in Ukraine and the real reasons as to why it happened.
It was depressing to watch, but frankly not terribly surprising, that several Republican presidential candidates are strangely out of touch with the day-to-day concerns of so many Americans. Many of the responses to Carlson’s questions were trite and “unbalanced” and left me wondering if these candidates ever had an original thought or even a textbook understanding of the critical issues facing America, at home or abroad. The same talking points and empty justifications for more of the same — or in the case of Ukraine, much more of the same. Terrifying and sad and potentially disastrous.
As politicians, they are looking at the hill of the primaries that they have to ascend, but they are also looking beyond at the sheer precipices of the mountains of the general election that they will have to scale. And given how divided the country is now between the GOP’s primary electorate and the general electorate (as located in various swing states), any of their responses must be read with that complex electoral calculus involved.
There's an old Bob Hope movie, a comic thriller from say 1940. He goes to Haiti and a local explains to him what zombies are: "Zombie not dead, not alive. Zombie got no will. Does what master say." Hope responds: "I get it. Like Democrats!"
The average Democrat supports the war in Ukraine. A big reason is that Trump does not support the war in Ukraine. It reminds me of the film "Little Big Man." General Custer points to the Dustin Hoffman character and says- "Do the opposite of what this man suggests." If Trump supported electric cars, Democrats would oppose them. If Trump supported a raise in the taxes of the wealthy, the Democrats would oppose the raise. If Trump supported vegetarianism, Democrats would become convinced carnivores and eat their steaks burned with ketchup to dip in.
Rod, have to be careful there. You might just back yourself into happily supporting Trump.😂 I hope you see the uniparty’s GOP actors are really showing how poorly they come off (or they just don’t care what we think anymore) because they know the game is rigged already.
Trump can't debate. That's why he is avoiding the debates. What we need is someone like Doug Macgregor running for President who could debate circles around any and all candidates whether they be Republican or Democrat.
Asa Hutchinson (R-Walmart) can be written off right away and be confined to the catacombs of Republican failures like his brother Tim Hutchinson (R-Adultery). Mike Pence has had a great career but running as a reincarnation of Ronald Reagan thirty-five years after the sputtering end of the Reagan Administration is ridiculous. Times change. The problems of today are different than the challenges of the past. Pence has not evolved or matured. As for Scott, I think he is running to be Trump's VP pick. His mind is facile and he probably shares the same personal characteristics of Lindsey Graham, the senior senator from his state. Scott hopes his race makes him Trump's VP nominee and Trump might be stupid enough to fall for it. But Trump will probably go for a woman because he likes pretty women more than blacks. I'd guess that he'd put Governor Kristi Noem on the ticket just because she's nice to look at.
By the way, how does the conservative state of South Carolina, home of John C. Calhoun and Wade Hampton and Pitchfork Ben Tillman and Strom Thurmond, elect such imbecilic jackasses like Graham, Scott, Mace, Sanford, Beasley, Inglis and Rice. Sotuh Carolina has a terrible track record.
Right. I'm 63. Reagan is the greatest president of my lifetime. But he was born in 1911 and he had to deal with the problems of his lifetime. Times change. The problems change. Reagan would have understood. Apparently, Pence doesn't.
Yes. Reagan actually caused a sea-change in political thinking. Kennedy was cautious and went with the flow. He was part of the cresting liberalism that dominated American politics from 1930-1980. But Kennedy was a better than average president. But he didn't actually alter politics very much. His successor, Johnson, actually altered politics with the Civil Rights, Medicare, Medicaid and the many welfare schemes. But the welfare schemes largely failed and so did his was in Vietnam.
South Carolina is home to several military bases and a lot of retired military. The state GOP is bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex to a much higher degree than other states.
Weird how none of them are even remotely attempting to pull themselves out of their 1% poll numbers. When you're basically a part of the background muck of no-name candidates, a smart campaign would try to flip the script drastically to pull out ahead of the competitors
Being neocon robot #293 is the easiest way to ensure you stay at the bottom of the pile. Then again these types probably aren't smart enough to do anything else
It does, especially compared to going back to whatever jerkwater fly- over state you came from and settling into being a partner at a local law firm, which is all most of these people are trained to be.
I quit caring about the gop and politics when all they were talking about last year about how many seats they might be able to pick up. That was when I realized it was a complete waste of time.
Just watched Hutchinson's answers on puberty blockers, etc. What a buffoon, and a perfect representation of how the GOP failed for years to grow a spine and stand up to far left activists.
I'm old enough to remember Saturday Night Live in the late 70s and the Looperners whose father was born without a spine. That's Asa Hutchinson. Destined for 0.31 % in New Hampshire and forever forgotten except by a few political nerds.
Pence folded on the Religious Freedom act because big business told him to. That's a good man?
Funny but I think Tim Scott would have achieved beyond Big Boy's. Do they still exist?
Weirdly, they took off really well in Japan, and there's way more locations than in the US. Actually had one a few months ago while visiting the fam.
Life is funny sometimes
There's also Denny's in Japan (serving healthier food than in the US) and I even ate at a Shakey's Pizza in Tokyo some years ago!
Shakey's have been dead a long while in America. I remember going to one forty-five years ago.
They do, rebranded as "Frisch's Big Boy." Still a thing in the Ohio valley.
https://www.frischs.com
That's right. Tim Scott is an affirmative action candidate. He would be running a North Charleston Burger King in real life just as George W. Bush would have been a Vice-President of a Houston bank because he was son of a president. Only some are called by the elite to do great things. The rest of us get to grind it out.
If Trump didn’t come from money he’d be the night manager at a Denny’s somewhere in New Jersey.
Surely you jest. Trump would have been an announcer for the fake wrastlin'.
I hope there’s a timeline where that’s true.
It might have become true. He gave Vince McMahon a marine buzz cut on TV.
Well maybe but he’s pretty old. If he had no talent with it he would have run out of money a long time ago.
Didn’t he help write that disastrous crime bill??
Well I personally like Tim Scott. I'm sorry he thinks he has to go along with the war party on this
LOL
in Mike Pence's defence re: that Greg Price tweet, here is the dialogue:
Tucker: "Every city in America has become worse over the past few years... Your concern is that Ukraine doesn't have enough tanks... Where's the concern for America in that?"
Pence: "That's not my concern."
it seems like Pence was responding "that's not my concern" to the question about "your concern is that Ukraine doesn't have enough tanks"
I can see that. Fair enough.
But will the viewers assume that? Pence should have clarified.
I think it is right up there with Gerald Ford's "There is no Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe". He must have been thinking of something else, such as the real resistance to the Soviets in Eastern Europe.
Indeed—I always thought Ford got a bad rap for that statement. By the 1970s the Soviets did not dominate Eastern Europe as they did under Stalin.
Old thread but I can't let that one go. When the Soviet tanks invaded Prague in 1968, they stayed through the 70s and beyond. Nothing in the Soviet Union, nor Eastern Europe was the way it was under Stalin, a unique horror in history who killed far more than Hitler. But it was still bad. "No Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe". Ok, Tito was not exacty dominated. So, fair for Yugolavia and also fair for Romania. Not otherwise.
But the fact is...it is his concern.
Hutchinson (R-Walmart)...lol.
LOVE the headlines. :D
What a great summary. Tucker will continue to mirror the failures of American MSM simply by displaying what actual journalism looks like.....
Carlson is a demagogue loon who babbles rightwing talking points , propaganda and barefaced lies. Sure there's audience for that, but like the old Jerry Springer Show it's a boutique taste - with a lot of class- all low.
Sure seems like he asked sharp questions that exposed the candidates' weaknesses. That would be a service to us all, and I don't know what you are rambling about.... :)
Agreed John Klar.
Sometimes he is Jon. I don't watch him, but from what I have read often he is no loon.
Where did he lie in this recent interview? Can you point to any specific examples?
What has Carlson lied about?
Well, Jon, you should know about propaganda and barefaced lies.
"Right wing talking points"
Lol -- Carlson was just about the only national conservative who actually challenged the standard right wing talking points! I don't think he's the loon here.
That is his chief value. The Republican Party and the Conservative Movement has become sterile in its thinking for over thirty years and had become similar to 1970s liberalism.
What lies did he tell, Jon? I saw a glorious massacre of garden variety chamber of commerce RINOs whose careers/stances are long past their sell date. The culture war is real. And warhawkery and Russia as the biggest bad is long past sunset.
Jon, Carlson was a writer before he was a TV star. In the late 1990, Carlson actually exposed George W. Bush's religiosity as phony either in Vanity Faire or The Atlantic. I forget which. Carlson is a free-thinker. Having the net worth of $400 million, he can afford to think freely.
Russia did not "need" to make war on Ukraine. It is entirely a war of choice no less than Iraq was with us.
uhh with the main difference being centuries of intertwined history and a country on their doorstep vs a country on the other side of the globe most Americans couldnt find on a map.
But they did it. Sucks for the Ukes, but they live in a tough neighborhood. Other than Boomer brain damage from hitting your head on the bottom of your desk during duck and cover drills in your youth, what reason do you have for thinking it should be our problem?
Well, we actually DID sign the Budapest Memorandum whereby we, the UK and the Russkies, did agree to protect Ukraine’s territorial integrity if they gave up their nukes- nukes stationed there by the USSR back in the day.
Would that be the same agreement where we agreed not to expand NATO and then did it anyway or a different treaty? I lose track of all of our perfidity.
And did the U.S. protect Ukraine's territorial integrity when we paid for a coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and replace him with one of our puppets?
So our 10+ years of poking and needling had nothing at all to do with it?
Mess with a bully long enough and eventually he's going to land one on your schnoz. At that point you have no right to whine about it.
I can see why Ukraine will be an issue in the GOP primaries, but in the general?
"Big majorities among both Democrats and Republicans believe Russia’s attack on Ukraine was unjustified, according to the poll, taken last month.
And about three out of four people in the U.S. support the United States playing at least some role in the conflict, the survey found...
In all, 62 percent regard Russia as an enemy — or top enemy — of the United States."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/half-of-u-s-public-approves-of-military-aid-to-ukraine-in-2nd-year-of-war-ap-norc-poll-shows
Because of the split of the Senate and the Modern Filibuster, the ERA isn't going anywhere in spite of 80(!) percent popular support, but these Ukraine poll numbers could definitely impact a presidential election so I wonder if that's why candidates are going to sound squishy even if they might personally agree with the take of someone like Carlson.
Only very few favor open war between USA and Russia.
The simple truth is that the war would have ended in March 2022 without the US intervention. All the lives lost would have been spared. The money wasted would have been saved. And it wouldn't have mattered to the US (as opposed to the US empire) one bit.
The smart play for candidates is as the Peace Candidate. The only reason to be the War Candidate like Pence is to placate the defense contractors.
Pence is also playing to the Evangelical Premillenial Dispensationalists.
Pence is playing for a favorable obituary from the left-wing press like The New York Times and The Washington Post. He's smart enough to know he's as done as a Donald Trump T-bone steak.
The general election is 16 mos. away. Lots can happen between now and then. It's way too early to predict how the Ukrainian situation will affect it.
If PBS is reporting it there’s a reason. My DH watches MSM and we wake up to NPR every morning; if people are supporting it it’s because of the ridiculously biased way the media are reporting on it.
That may be true but i don't think it's here or there for a potential presidential candidate.
The reason, I think is social media. The Hutchinsons and Pences of the world could and would say whatever they want in a tucker carlson interview like this in previous generations. Now they know that if they tell Carlson and his viewers what they want to hear and it enables them to win the nomination, it will just get clipped and sent around during the general when they're trying to pivot and attract the moderates they need to actually win.
It's just much less easy now, if not totally impossible, to do the traditional method of appealing to the base in the primaries then tacking to the center for the general.
I get your point but television has been around for quite awhile. Politicians have always had to say what the base has wanted in order to get the nomination; the question was always who were they lying to, the base or the gen pop? Previously it was the base, now it had better be the gen pop. Republicans have always lied to the base and then did less than nothing for them once in office. We’ve had enough.
But mostly the only way clips of conflicting statements got brought up is if jon Stewart's crew on the daily show dug them up. There just weren't the consequences there are now. Now, your opponent will save the clips and endlessly share them on social media.
So the statements of pence and Hutchinson rod is complaining about is really an example of them having to lie to you less.
You’re right about social media of course but remember too that political advertising saturates the airwaves and uses very artful editing in their attack ads...I never listen to the noise but I’m sure I am unusual in that regard.
I won't object to a difference of degree argument. I guess I'm just saying that the degree of intensity has ratcheted up with social media to almost make it a difference of kind.
I mean, congresspeople have always bloviated at hearings. Now, however, the response by the person testifying doesn't even matter. All they want is the video of them owning the other side to post to Twitter and the Facebook what fighters they are....
If American soldiers were dying at the front in Ukraine, you can bet support for the war would diminish rapidly. Americans are very soft and would not countenance heavy casualties. Americans would squeal if income taxes went up one percent.
The U.S. needs to reinstate the draft and conscript everyone from 18 to 50 to be sent to Ukraine to fight for "Democracy." It's not right that the Ukrainians alone should be doing all the fighting and dying. That will get everyone focused on the war in Ukraine and the real reasons as to why it happened.
Can you see the type conscripts we would get in 2023? The army would cease to function.
It was depressing to watch, but frankly not terribly surprising, that several Republican presidential candidates are strangely out of touch with the day-to-day concerns of so many Americans. Many of the responses to Carlson’s questions were trite and “unbalanced” and left me wondering if these candidates ever had an original thought or even a textbook understanding of the critical issues facing America, at home or abroad. The same talking points and empty justifications for more of the same — or in the case of Ukraine, much more of the same. Terrifying and sad and potentially disastrous.
Right. Most Republican politicians couldn't give a hoot about the concerns of their voters. They perform to their moneyhandlers.
I believe you mean “most politicians.” Doesn’t matter what flavor.
As politicians, they are looking at the hill of the primaries that they have to ascend, but they are also looking beyond at the sheer precipices of the mountains of the general election that they will have to scale. And given how divided the country is now between the GOP’s primary electorate and the general electorate (as located in various swing states), any of their responses must be read with that complex electoral calculus involved.
Do you really think the average dem supports the war?
There's an old Bob Hope movie, a comic thriller from say 1940. He goes to Haiti and a local explains to him what zombies are: "Zombie not dead, not alive. Zombie got no will. Does what master say." Hope responds: "I get it. Like Democrats!"
The average Democrat supports the war in Ukraine. A big reason is that Trump does not support the war in Ukraine. It reminds me of the film "Little Big Man." General Custer points to the Dustin Hoffman character and says- "Do the opposite of what this man suggests." If Trump supported electric cars, Democrats would oppose them. If Trump supported a raise in the taxes of the wealthy, the Democrats would oppose the raise. If Trump supported vegetarianism, Democrats would become convinced carnivores and eat their steaks burned with ketchup to dip in.
I seem to remember that the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople took a lot of money from a US government agency before the schism.
Rod, have to be careful there. You might just back yourself into happily supporting Trump.😂 I hope you see the uniparty’s GOP actors are really showing how poorly they come off (or they just don’t care what we think anymore) because they know the game is rigged already.
Trump can't debate. That's why he is avoiding the debates. What we need is someone like Doug Macgregor running for President who could debate circles around any and all candidates whether they be Republican or Democrat.
I am at work and can't watch but I'd like to watch the whole thing later, I hope it will be available!
Asa Hutchinson (R-Walmart) can be written off right away and be confined to the catacombs of Republican failures like his brother Tim Hutchinson (R-Adultery). Mike Pence has had a great career but running as a reincarnation of Ronald Reagan thirty-five years after the sputtering end of the Reagan Administration is ridiculous. Times change. The problems of today are different than the challenges of the past. Pence has not evolved or matured. As for Scott, I think he is running to be Trump's VP pick. His mind is facile and he probably shares the same personal characteristics of Lindsey Graham, the senior senator from his state. Scott hopes his race makes him Trump's VP nominee and Trump might be stupid enough to fall for it. But Trump will probably go for a woman because he likes pretty women more than blacks. I'd guess that he'd put Governor Kristi Noem on the ticket just because she's nice to look at.
By the way, how does the conservative state of South Carolina, home of John C. Calhoun and Wade Hampton and Pitchfork Ben Tillman and Strom Thurmond, elect such imbecilic jackasses like Graham, Scott, Mace, Sanford, Beasley, Inglis and Rice. Sotuh Carolina has a terrible track record.
Right. I'm 63. Reagan is the greatest president of my lifetime. But he was born in 1911 and he had to deal with the problems of his lifetime. Times change. The problems change. Reagan would have understood. Apparently, Pence doesn't.
Better than JFK?
Kennedy got us into Vietnam. So yes.
Yes. Reagan actually caused a sea-change in political thinking. Kennedy was cautious and went with the flow. He was part of the cresting liberalism that dominated American politics from 1930-1980. But Kennedy was a better than average president. But he didn't actually alter politics very much. His successor, Johnson, actually altered politics with the Civil Rights, Medicare, Medicaid and the many welfare schemes. But the welfare schemes largely failed and so did his was in Vietnam.
South Carolina is home to several military bases and a lot of retired military. The state GOP is bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex to a much higher degree than other states.
Sad to say, you are right.
Weird how none of them are even remotely attempting to pull themselves out of their 1% poll numbers. When you're basically a part of the background muck of no-name candidates, a smart campaign would try to flip the script drastically to pull out ahead of the competitors
Being neocon robot #293 is the easiest way to ensure you stay at the bottom of the pile. Then again these types probably aren't smart enough to do anything else
I’ve come to believe that running for President must pay well or people who have no chance would shy away.
It does, especially compared to going back to whatever jerkwater fly- over state you came from and settling into being a partner at a local law firm, which is all most of these people are trained to be.
I quit caring about the gop and politics when all they were talking about last year about how many seats they might be able to pick up. That was when I realized it was a complete waste of time.
Just watched Hutchinson's answers on puberty blockers, etc. What a buffoon, and a perfect representation of how the GOP failed for years to grow a spine and stand up to far left activists.
I'm old enough to remember Saturday Night Live in the late 70s and the Looperners whose father was born without a spine. That's Asa Hutchinson. Destined for 0.31 % in New Hampshire and forever forgotten except by a few political nerds.