It’s because their entire paradigm centers around demanding validation from the whole world in something that isn’t true. Of course they’re being violent, they’re being driven completely insane by this psychotic philosophy.
"Garland said a motive was still pending in the case." and yet in all the other "hate crimes" they are quick to label them as such without a motive being known
We must demand full disclosure to this demonic action.
The demons inside this movement are making it known that life is in fact not sacred unless they are allowed to pervert it. They have come to break the seal and open the purple testament of bloody war.
So let's be clear. You want to provide additional motivation to mass shooters by guaranteeing that any writing they left behind will be published and centered in conversation by political elites for weeks to come? That can't possibly have unintended consequences.
Does that mean we can look forward to deep talk from you on how the manifestos of previous nationalist shooters who talk about Replacement Theory should be a source of deep and serious introspection from the Right?
Where have you been? That motivation, along with the manifestos by the more literate and focused monsters among us, to accompany their acts of violence has been there for decades. That cat is well and truly out of the bag. Charlie Manson and Uncle Ted Kacyznski say "Hi," to name a couple.
The first mass murderer manifesto that I remember being released (other than the special case of the Unabomber - and because of it he still has fans three decades later) was the video of the Virginia Tech shooter, which was sent to and then released by NBC. (This was in 2007, so TV was still holding on as the dominant medium.) I do seem to recall that the criticism from the time came in large part from the right, although I don't recollect any notable pocket of support for the release anywhere (except, I guess, behind closed doors at NBC).
Crazy Ted K. actually saw some things quite clearly. I have his full manifesto. Not only is it peppered with a wicked sense of humor but it also reveals that he was a bit of a mad prophet. He quite brilliantly visualized exactly where we are at.
Before his identity was blown, i (living here in Berkeley) would say all the time, “He is connected to Cal somehow. His whole attitude is an amalgam of Berkeley Enviro maniacs. The FBI should have spoken to me. Then again, I had a friend in the Bureau; I should have spoken to him.
Do you know what MK Ultra was? The real thing, not the broader conspiracy theory.
Kaczynski was a real life subject of those experiments. He was drugged up and subjected to hours and hours of humiliation, especially targeting his masculinity, his sexuality, and his gender presentation.
"It was clearly done because the school founder was a child rapist." So the murderer, angry that kids somewhere had been raped, concludes that she needs to go kill some innocent kids? Seriously?
Just as LGBTQ has become a social contagion, though there are dark spiritual ramifications too. The Devil doesn't make us do it, but entertaining these delusions brings a legion of encouragers of personal destruction.
There is nothing wrong with seeking to verify if this was a hit on Christians.
Do we suppress the truth about hate crimes against blacks? Jews? These types of crimes are particularly dangerous to society at large. But the media goes mute when it gets in the way of their narrative. Here in the bay area there are horrible crimes of theft and violence being committed by the black community against asians and the media will say nothing about it. Sometimes you have to dig deep to find a mug shot.
That I agree with, that we need to verify the cause. But that doesn't mean releasing the manifesto at large. It would be nice if we had reliable people on the right that the document could be given to in order to verify or summarize without giving her the celebrity she clearly wanted.
I see your point and i agree. This beast should not be given the opportunity to be heard. I simply want to know if it was an ideological hit on Christians. If one of those freaks tries that in the church I attend they will have their ass handed to them in short order.
Yeah, the all-seeing, all-wise gatekeepers, like the disinformation governance board. Do I hear the refrain of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? Sung along with Nina Jankowicz?
We can absolutely talk about motive when we have anything to share beyond some extremely broad assumptions from Rod at this point. I noted in another post that there is already at least one solid alternate theory out there. Just like we can talk about the firebombing of a church by right wingers last night. But what we should never do is give over the microphone to the mass murderer.
You are being literary, but the mass murderer is literally dead. The motive is in the manifesto. Publishing it is not the same as condoning it, and only someone guided by fear would think so. The killer is controlling you from beyond the grave, making you censor and hide the ugly reality of their existence. Your "excuse" is that it's so ugly, so heinous, so criminal that it's attractive.
Are you concerned that you yourself might become a murderer by attraction? Is it really that easy? I just want to read words without thinking they're so evil they're downright hypnotic.
Should all crime scene photos be public? How about autopsy photos? All their text messages and emails for the last two years?
Again: we know, for a fact, that the fame given to mass shooters increases the odds of another one happening. it is in fact a social contagion and we can track it. The fact that this one happened yesterday makes it more likely that another mass shooting will happen this week. Reducing the exposure of the murderer reduces those odds.That doesn't mean hiding any fact about them, it means not promoting it.
And finally, there are a lot of legal reasons these documents don't get released. Right now, they're evidence in an ongoing investigation. The victims themselves may not want them released. Rod's demonic and manic demand that he knows everything RIGHT NOW is not healthy or reasonable.
Rod is pointing out narrative management, not the manic stuff you accuse him of. Regardless, if you agree that motive shouldn't be swept under the rug, then we can agree. But I'm still less worried about glorifying murderers, and more worried about Truth Massagers.
What firebombing of a church by rightwingers? There's been a ton of firebombings this past year - by pro-abortion folks and Catholic-haters. Folks on the right aren't taking down churches.
Transgenderism is a twisted ideology. Did you see the grinning dolt who is the ( no doubt richly deserved ) Lt. Governor of Minnesota? The Ultimate Karen.
I've never been impressed by the argument that we shouldn't publish lunatic "manifestos." With the speed of the ever changing news cycle, the people who do these things must know that next week there'll be another psycho somewhere. Each one will have posthumous infamy for only so long.
In general, no, I don't think they should be published, because they contribute nothing. This case may be different. Let people see the green, stinking pus which had taken over this woman's soul.
That senile dement who is President, declaring trans rights "the civil rights issue of our time"! And let us not forget Admiral Rachel Levine, whose transsexualism has been a loss to male nebbishes everywhere.
Rip it off. Haz - mat suits notwithstanding, keep your distance. Let's do a postmortem of just how this failure of a life got to be that way.
"Does that mean we can look forward to deep talk from you on how the manifestos of previous nationalist shooters who talk about Replacement Theory should be a source of deep and serious introspection from the Right?"
I've always liked the idea of publishing manifestos. The idea that a person will give prominence to their writings by ending their own life gives weight to ideas that would otherwise be excluded from the public sphere. This may give some people the vapors, but we have politicians who promote genocide and war crimes - just think John McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iraaaan" - while calling it public policy and "defending democracy/freedom/etc." As the apocryphal pirate stated to Alexander, it's all a matter of scale. In addition, Ted Kaczynski and Luke Halder had bits of wisdom in what they were saying, though the message got muddled by the means. With Anders Breivik, he exposed a strain of thought that lurked below the surface and got little notice, even though it was always echoed in circles of racists on the right. Maybe we simply are no longer a society which is educated enough to sift through something and analyze it, instead of looking to confirm our biases or boil it down to a fragment of a sentence.
That is a fascinating take, and I find myself in agreement with you. I don't get the "we should NEVER give them publicity!!" school of thought.
Beatles fans know that it's just not good form to say the name of John Lennon's killer for this reason, but I'm a fan who takes exception to the shibboleth. I don't mind saying it: Mark David Chapman. He is an evil bastard. He has admitted that he killed Lennon for the attention it would bring him. I'm glad we know his name and his motive. Let them both dwell in obliquy forevermore.
I could be wrong, but I would think you’d be in favor of the latter, no?
My own view is that there should indeed be soul-searching on all sides, within reason, and without inadvertently adding to the fame and glory of killers and terrorists.
I don't see how examining their lives, like we examined bin Laden's, adds any glory to the deeds of murderers and terrorists. Whoever wants to be inspired is already inspired by the deed. The rest of us who are normal cannot be guided by the preferences of miscreants and criminal wannabes. Understanding the banality of evil is part of the normal human experience. Denying it to us is pure parochialism.
I'm not sure, my dear Hmmm, whether your comment was addressed to me, but it showed up in my email as though it had been. I do favor the publication of her statement.
Hey, Bobby. I think i was responding to someone else. I loved your comments and saw that you do favor publication.
I personally want a full post-mortem on that pile of rancid meat. From it’s hooved feet, up it’s rectum and all the way to what insects it ate. Straight from the pit of hell.
Head on a swivel, my southern brother.
We sure could use a good dose of Stonewall and Lee right now.
Yep, the first thing I thought was "testosterone is one hell of a drug." We've had several cases of TiFs (trans-identified females) on exogenous T committing violence against others, usually women. Here's one case:
Interestingly, I am sure this shooting will be listed as a crime committed by a female. But if it had been a TiM (trans-identified male) who had done this, it would **also** have been listed as a crime committed by a female. Double standard there.
The shooter had not yet transitioned. The picture shows someone who still looks like a woman, and it's a good guess Audrey was still her legal name since that's the name the police released (presumably they got it off an ID on the body).
I was astounded when it was reported that a *woman* committed these crimes with a gun. Women don’t kill with guns. So is the Narrative now that “it’s bad if cismen murder with guns but understandable—and supportable— if trans-men on testosterone do”? Huh?
I understand what Rod is saying here and share both his belief that the American MSM is possibly the most dishonest and malevolent force on earth as well as his wish that we could stop Living By Lies and have an honest conversation (whatever that may mean or entail) about this mass psychosis that has captured our institutions and is inflicting itself on impressionable (and often anxious & addled) children.
But I have to disagree on 2 points:
1) This moment of reckoning we imagine as one possible future outcome, where the Dems and the MSM and the activist groups etc come down to earth, admit they got carried away, and try to find a reasonable middle ground on issues surrounding Gender, is NEVER HAPPENING. First off, this would require admitting that conservatives were right, which is for liberals what chewing garlic is for vampires; also, they would have to accept some level of responsibility for child mutilation, which most people wouldn't admit to even in court.
And this also omits the theological aspect of all this: for worshippers of the Social Justice religion, Trans Rights are the most sacred rights of all, as they are the current reigning Victim class, as well as a perfect symbol of all modern Leftism: the heroic journey of the Marginalized Other overcoming Bigotry to achieve their True and Authentic Self™. The Trans Child is to the Left what the Christ Child is to Christians, the innocent who has arrived to cleanse away our sins and lead us to a better purer world, and they will no sooner relinquish their Holy Child than Christians will theirs.
2) Also, regardless of Trans etc or other issues, I just think it's a terrible idea to publish any manifesto or artwork etc of any mass murderer, for any reason, this only accedes to their demented wishes and glorifies their evil actions. People who commit these acts should be sentenced to Damnatio memoriae instead of awarded the glory of posthumous fame (which only encourages future aspiring mass murderers).
I would never say a published book should be withdrawn or censored, and I'm pretty close to a free speech and free expression absolutist, I just think that publishing manifestos of deranged mass murderers will only encourage future aspiring mass murderers.
Maybe we can meet in the middle and say: publish your manifesto first, then go do your killing. But the cops have no obligation to provide posthumous fame.
Are you arguing that the manifesto written by this shooting has the equivalent historical weight and significance as a book published by Hitler, a world leader who was extremely popular in the US prior to 1940, which helped launch his career?
No, I am arguing against casual censorship increasingly employed these days for spurious reasons. The harm you are outlining of copycats following the killer's example is less salient to my mind than the harm of habituating censurious behavior. You are worried about a possibility. I am worried about a present reality, which is the impulse to hide the unpleasant truth, to shield us, for our own good. No, thank you. I can handle reading the words of a killer without becoming a killer myself, and if you cannot, there is something deficient about your approach, and society shouldn't cater to such fears. Instead of hiding the manifesto, we should be inviting society to face it squarely.
What "unpleasant truth"? In this case the truth is glaringly obvious, written in blood. Six innocent people, three of them children, were murdered. Would contemplating the the sick rantings of the depraved shooter somehow edify us? We don't need to step in sh!t to know we should avoid it.
Unlike Mr. Lime's assertions, I quite like men. Rather too much at several points in my life. But there is no delight in the WORLD like watching men put on the Cramp Simulator after saying they thought women were exaggerating.
Especially when the woman in question is standing next to him with the simulator on the same setting, shrugging, while he sobs in a little curl on the floor.
Though... It was banned in Germany from after the war until just a few years ago. Oh, there certainly were old copies that could be found in granny's attic, because at one point, it was pretty much required that every household have one, but one almost had to go out of the country to see what was actually written, which unfortunately made a lot of people more curious to what it said rather than less.
Years ago, in high school and out of curiosity of course, I read parts of Mein Kampf at the public library and found it unreadable. Mein Kampf can't be compared to other unintelligible works of German letters and philosophy, like stuff coming from the pens of Nietzsche and Heidegger, which I read in college, albeit superficially. AH was a true dilettante, a mediocre artist and intellectual, whose failures in imperial Vienna ushered in a cataclysm that is still being felt today. I suspect Ms. Hale's manifesto, if we can call it that, will also highlight her failures and pathos as justification for the rage that was to follow.
"The Trans Child is to the Left what the Christ Child is to Christians"
Very pithy and very accurate. Spot on analysis, I fear. They will not "realize their error". They must be forced out of power and into social (maybe physical) exile by the sane.
You can count the Jesuits out. They're too busy promoting transgenderism. Their magazine 'America' today is calling for the abolition of the Second Amendment.
There is such a betrayal from so many American institutions today. I don't know where we go from here. What will America look like in 20 years? Will we recognize it?
20 years from now? After a total collapse into a godless state of pagan depravity (public copulation with kids and animals, live human sacrifice on tv shows like Survivor, rampant satanic worship), we will be easily brought to heel by China. Hard labor in work camps and serving tea to leaders of industry.
It is interesting to contrast the behavior of men in their forties and fifties from China or India with the behavior of men in America of the same age. Those cultures have their faults, but there is also a different feeling you get from those men - maybe a sense of responsibility, seriousness, or presence? - that you don't always get from American men, who all too often act like overgrown kids, wrapped up in meaningless things like being sports fans or playing around with expensive and shiny toys.
The flip side is that a men from China or India you meet at that age came here with PhD's or similar high level training. They're serious people. The guys who sit out front of the local bar at 2 pm hollerin' at girls and scratching their cracks? Their equivalents exist. They just don't have the money or means to migrate. Even far from their barstool. ;)
Mmm, I'm not sure I would agree. I've known plenty of folks from India, fewer from China, but enough. Palestinians, others from the Middle East. A few Iranians. This was a vertical slice through social classes, majority and minority ethnicities, cultures, etc. There are always the idiots who will tie a can to the tail of a dog, as you point out, but there is that sense of serious purpose that seems to permeate those cultures that is gone from ours. Back in a prior life, I worked with people who went to gas stations owned by Indians. They would complain about how "those people" are stealing all the jobs over here, and taking over, but were the same kind of people who were lazy AF and would never compromise their personal comfort in favor of progress in their own lives or the lives of their families.
You mean people who so hate their own essence that they would volunteer for multiple painful unnecessary surgeries, a lifetime of dependence to doses of hormones that would be considered malpractice if they were prescribed to cisgenders, and ongoing physically painful manipulation of their fake genitals to prevent their bodies from healing in order to maintain the charade might be willing to do violence to the bodies of other people?
I'll take "Observations that are so blindingly obvious that only an intellectual would deny their reality" for $200, Alex.*
This tendency always has been present, from my own experiences in the homosexual subculture of Los Angeles decades ago. I was never abused or attacked, nor was anyone else I knew, except by overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies of jealousy. It is common that BDSM episodes get out of hand leading occasionally even to death. You might say now, that with the metastasized prevalence, that it is now literally on steroids. The propaganda is contributing to now being caught up either personally or as allies, or as the doxxed and silenced. Yet as a public advocate told me privately, contrary to his speeches, that he blamed himself for getting me into this unhappy lifestyle. I will also say that as I stared into the abyss, what stared back was the demonic. We recognize one another to this day.
Let me add a common meme, that what would be delicious if we could convert Christians' children to our side, following the same desire to corrupt that was expressed so well in The Picture of Dorian Grey, before Hollywood bowdlerized it to a schlock horror movie.
“I was never abused or attacked, nor was anyone else I knew, except by overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies of jealousy.”
I hear ya. Living here on the bay i have many gay affiliations. Some are sane and mind their manners. I do know people attacked and I personally have experienced many times what you described as “overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies”.
Just two months ago, a longtime friend I grew up with (gay and always treated kindly by me) flipped out on me because i sent him one of Rod’s postings about Woke shit. I last saw him screaming at me at the top of his lungs late at night from his balcony in Richmond. He said that I was being brainwashed by satanic propaganda and that I should start attending Episcopal church. I replied, “You mean swap my devotion to Christ for the praise of heretics?”. He went APESHIT. I silently turned around, walked away, got in my car and drove away. Fini.
Glad that ended well. In my case, they didn't leave it alone but doxxed me with a false Wordpress website that caused financial ruin. Such is Woke World.
Freedom of Information Act request for the manifesto. Let some right-wing blogger or some such publish it - so long as it gets published, and we get to see the full "rationale" on display.
It absolutely will upend the sacred narrative.
Also, expect more like this, transgenders acting out.
Just to put down a marker, don't expect the manifesto to be released by Nashville PD as long as the imvestogation is considered "open." While it seems self- evident that the case is closed due to the death of the suspect, there's still a lot to be done.
1. Co- conspirators (if any exist/ are identified) will need to be investigated. If any are charged, then the manifesto will become evidence in their prosecutions, delaying any release further.
2. The officers who fired the fatal shots, while clearly justified to do so under the law, will have to be investigated and officially cleared. This will take weeks, if not months.
3. At some point the investigation will be closed. At that point the manifesto should be available. If it's not voluntarily released then, it should be obtainable through an open records request.
One way or another, the manifesto will eventually be released. It won't be quick, however.
What jumped out at me about this story was that the perpetrator was a woman. That's really weird, since 98% of all mass shooters are males (man-boys -- no real man would slaughter innocent people, but I digress.)
Based on that statistic alone, it is almost inconceivable that Audrey Hale's consumption of testosterone (in a futile attempt to remake her body) did not play a role in this shooting. Had Audrey Hale been given therapy instead of T, 6 people would likely still be alive today.
Again, we as yet have. no evidence that the shooter was on Testosterone. If she was, then yes, we have grounds to discuss that. Until then, you're making a lot of assumptions based on a single pronoun on a single social media site.
I guess that's true, Elizabeth, in light that "trans" doesn't really mean anything other than "I don't like my body". However, we will neer know if she was, since HIPAA prevents release of that sort of information. I would be extremely surprised if she were not.
Rod, as a general rule the authorities do not release these kinds of things for the very good and useful reason that WE DO NOT WANT TO GLORIFY THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO LIKEWISE!!!! Please have some common sense on this. There's no "Christian bashing" over this incident in the US-- why do you think there is? Everyone is horrified and disgusted and yes, for the umpteenth time we're going round and round about gun control.
Putting an argument in all caps doesn't make it any more valid. Either it's a good argument or it's not. Shouting it doesn't make it any better or worse.
True but Rod is so far off the deep end on this matter that I am appalled by his demand. We should change long-standing practice and give heed to the (likely) unspooled rantings of a nutcase for the scoring of some political brownie points?
In antiquity some loon set fire to the temple of Artemis at Ephesus and when apprehended claimed he had done the deed so history would remember him. The city refused his wish and after putting him to death ordered that his name be stricken from every document and history of the event. This is the one good excuse I think there is for a true damnatio memoriae : to deny any fame, even ill fame, to someone who commits an appallingly evil act for the sake of that recognition. Of course such censorship is impossible in today's world but if it were possible I'd be quite glad to have this person be forever known as nothing more than "the mass murderer who shot up a church school"- name forever scrubbed from the record.
Edited; Okay, I skimmed the rest. It's about what i would expect you to say. Debating you requires a huge investment of time and energy I don't have and won't lead anywhere anyway. Just lay off the caps lock.
The police can give us a summary of her motive. And really, why do we need it? Do you think it's likely to be something sane and sober that we should take seriously? I do not: sane people do not go on murder sprees targeting children. Nothing the shooter had to say can justify or explain that.
If there's a legal process-- a trial-- happening then I firmly and completely agree. Someone above noted that if there's accomplices to the act (probably there aren't, but if...) the manifesto would likely be needed in their trial, and yes it should be entered into public evidence then. But the only Judge this shooter is going to face is not of this world, and with that we must be content (God's judgment being perfect in all things we should be more than merely content)
Why are you assuming the act was committed for the sake of recognition?
I disagree with your conclusion. The killer was a mere fallen human, and remembering her exactly for who she was is about us, and our own capacity to learn something, not about her failures and evil deeds.
Do you think the names and legacies of all narcissistic fame-seeking monsters should be erased, or just this one?
It’s because their entire paradigm centers around demanding validation from the whole world in something that isn’t true. Of course they’re being violent, they’re being driven completely insane by this psychotic philosophy.
And yes I agree, the double-standard is terrifying. We don’t even talk about Jane’s Revenge anymore and they were a legitimate terrorist group
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna77013
"Garland said a motive was still pending in the case." and yet in all the other "hate crimes" they are quick to label them as such without a motive being known
good for Sen. Hawley
We must demand full disclosure to this demonic action.
The demons inside this movement are making it known that life is in fact not sacred unless they are allowed to pervert it. They have come to break the seal and open the purple testament of bloody war.
So let's be clear. You want to provide additional motivation to mass shooters by guaranteeing that any writing they left behind will be published and centered in conversation by political elites for weeks to come? That can't possibly have unintended consequences.
Does that mean we can look forward to deep talk from you on how the manifestos of previous nationalist shooters who talk about Replacement Theory should be a source of deep and serious introspection from the Right?
Where have you been? That motivation, along with the manifestos by the more literate and focused monsters among us, to accompany their acts of violence has been there for decades. That cat is well and truly out of the bag. Charlie Manson and Uncle Ted Kacyznski say "Hi," to name a couple.
Yeah, and we stopped doing it when shooters claimed the fame of others was an incentive.
Just like how you don't want the moral corruption of politicians exposed. Hey, other people might get ideas too.
The first mass murderer manifesto that I remember being released (other than the special case of the Unabomber - and because of it he still has fans three decades later) was the video of the Virginia Tech shooter, which was sent to and then released by NBC. (This was in 2007, so TV was still holding on as the dominant medium.) I do seem to recall that the criticism from the time came in large part from the right, although I don't recollect any notable pocket of support for the release anywhere (except, I guess, behind closed doors at NBC).
I also remember leftwing papers like the Guardian publishing screeds from Osama bin Laden.
Early on, yes, but as they used it more and more for propaganda they stopped doing it unless there was critical content.
Crazy Ted K. actually saw some things quite clearly. I have his full manifesto. Not only is it peppered with a wicked sense of humor but it also reveals that he was a bit of a mad prophet. He quite brilliantly visualized exactly where we are at.
Before his identity was blown, i (living here in Berkeley) would say all the time, “He is connected to Cal somehow. His whole attitude is an amalgam of Berkeley Enviro maniacs. The FBI should have spoken to me. Then again, I had a friend in the Bureau; I should have spoken to him.
There's s reason he was chosen to be an MK Ultra subject.
What is an “MK Ultra subject”?
Do you know what MK Ultra was? The real thing, not the broader conspiracy theory.
Kaczynski was a real life subject of those experiments. He was drugged up and subjected to hours and hours of humiliation, especially targeting his masculinity, his sexuality, and his gender presentation.
Interesting. I vaguely recall hearing about it. Not suprising.
Yeah, yeah, he's another "victim" oppressed according to intersectional Woke values.
You must not have tuned in, turned on and dropped out.
Some made hasty exits off high balconies.
He of the wicked sense of humor thinks The Professor is the protagonist of The Secret Agent.
Why is there no "dislike" button? It is sorely needed here.
We know for a fact that previous shooters have cited other killers being famous as a motivation for carrying out their own mass attacks.
But this wasn't done out of a desire for recognition. It was done out of vengeance - you f*ck with transgenders, look what we will do to you.
Want to dispute that? Fine. Then release the manifesto, and let's see.
No, it was clearly done because the school founder was a child rapist.
I've got considerably more evidence of that than "trans vengeance". And the evidence for that is about as thick a breath.
You've jumped the shark. There is actually a Trans Day of Vengeance coming up as Andy NGO among others documented.
Killing children because the school founder was a child rapist makes no sense.
Correct. It makes no sense at all.
"It was clearly done because the school founder was a child rapist." So the murderer, angry that kids somewhere had been raped, concludes that she needs to go kill some innocent kids? Seriously?
It makes as much sense as “because trans”, which is to say, none at all. Which was my point.
"Clearly". You got this going on.
Just as LGBTQ has become a social contagion, though there are dark spiritual ramifications too. The Devil doesn't make us do it, but entertaining these delusions brings a legion of encouragers of personal destruction.
I thought it was the guns.
Really? A dislike calls for some articulation or simply do the old fashioned thing and say nothing.
😀🥃
There is nothing wrong with seeking to verify if this was a hit on Christians.
Do we suppress the truth about hate crimes against blacks? Jews? These types of crimes are particularly dangerous to society at large. But the media goes mute when it gets in the way of their narrative. Here in the bay area there are horrible crimes of theft and violence being committed by the black community against asians and the media will say nothing about it. Sometimes you have to dig deep to find a mug shot.
That I agree with, that we need to verify the cause. But that doesn't mean releasing the manifesto at large. It would be nice if we had reliable people on the right that the document could be given to in order to verify or summarize without giving her the celebrity she clearly wanted.
I see your point and i agree. This beast should not be given the opportunity to be heard. I simply want to know if it was an ideological hit on Christians. If one of those freaks tries that in the church I attend they will have their ass handed to them in short order.
Yeah, the all-seeing, all-wise gatekeepers, like the disinformation governance board. Do I hear the refrain of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? Sung along with Nina Jankowicz?
So let's not talk about motive?
We can absolutely talk about motive when we have anything to share beyond some extremely broad assumptions from Rod at this point. I noted in another post that there is already at least one solid alternate theory out there. Just like we can talk about the firebombing of a church by right wingers last night. But what we should never do is give over the microphone to the mass murderer.
You are being literary, but the mass murderer is literally dead. The motive is in the manifesto. Publishing it is not the same as condoning it, and only someone guided by fear would think so. The killer is controlling you from beyond the grave, making you censor and hide the ugly reality of their existence. Your "excuse" is that it's so ugly, so heinous, so criminal that it's attractive.
Are you concerned that you yourself might become a murderer by attraction? Is it really that easy? I just want to read words without thinking they're so evil they're downright hypnotic.
Should all crime scene photos be public? How about autopsy photos? All their text messages and emails for the last two years?
Again: we know, for a fact, that the fame given to mass shooters increases the odds of another one happening. it is in fact a social contagion and we can track it. The fact that this one happened yesterday makes it more likely that another mass shooting will happen this week. Reducing the exposure of the murderer reduces those odds.That doesn't mean hiding any fact about them, it means not promoting it.
And finally, there are a lot of legal reasons these documents don't get released. Right now, they're evidence in an ongoing investigation. The victims themselves may not want them released. Rod's demonic and manic demand that he knows everything RIGHT NOW is not healthy or reasonable.
Rod is pointing out narrative management, not the manic stuff you accuse him of. Regardless, if you agree that motive shouldn't be swept under the rug, then we can agree. But I'm still less worried about glorifying murderers, and more worried about Truth Massagers.
The "broad assumptions from Rod" are either proven or disproven by the manifesto.
Maybe. Or maybe the manifesto is a 50 page screed on the new Velma.
Hmm. If it was only a 50 page screed, the shooter obviously didn't make it past the trailer.
What firebombing of a church by rightwingers? There's been a ton of firebombings this past year - by pro-abortion folks and Catholic-haters. Folks on the right aren't taking down churches.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2023/03/26/geauga-county-church-vandalized-by-molotov-cocktails-ahead-drag-show-event/
Liberals and their Cancel Culture...
Transgenderism is a twisted ideology. Did you see the grinning dolt who is the ( no doubt richly deserved ) Lt. Governor of Minnesota? The Ultimate Karen.
I've never been impressed by the argument that we shouldn't publish lunatic "manifestos." With the speed of the ever changing news cycle, the people who do these things must know that next week there'll be another psycho somewhere. Each one will have posthumous infamy for only so long.
In general, no, I don't think they should be published, because they contribute nothing. This case may be different. Let people see the green, stinking pus which had taken over this woman's soul.
That senile dement who is President, declaring trans rights "the civil rights issue of our time"! And let us not forget Admiral Rachel Levine, whose transsexualism has been a loss to male nebbishes everywhere.
Rip it off. Haz - mat suits notwithstanding, keep your distance. Let's do a postmortem of just how this failure of a life got to be that way.
"Does that mean we can look forward to deep talk from you on how the manifestos of previous nationalist shooters who talk about Replacement Theory should be a source of deep and serious introspection from the Right?"
Rod isn't this EXACTLY what you would do?
I've always liked the idea of publishing manifestos. The idea that a person will give prominence to their writings by ending their own life gives weight to ideas that would otherwise be excluded from the public sphere. This may give some people the vapors, but we have politicians who promote genocide and war crimes - just think John McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iraaaan" - while calling it public policy and "defending democracy/freedom/etc." As the apocryphal pirate stated to Alexander, it's all a matter of scale. In addition, Ted Kaczynski and Luke Halder had bits of wisdom in what they were saying, though the message got muddled by the means. With Anders Breivik, he exposed a strain of thought that lurked below the surface and got little notice, even though it was always echoed in circles of racists on the right. Maybe we simply are no longer a society which is educated enough to sift through something and analyze it, instead of looking to confirm our biases or boil it down to a fragment of a sentence.
That is a fascinating take, and I find myself in agreement with you. I don't get the "we should NEVER give them publicity!!" school of thought.
Beatles fans know that it's just not good form to say the name of John Lennon's killer for this reason, but I'm a fan who takes exception to the shibboleth. I don't mind saying it: Mark David Chapman. He is an evil bastard. He has admitted that he killed Lennon for the attention it would bring him. I'm glad we know his name and his motive. Let them both dwell in obliquy forevermore.
I could be wrong, but I would think you’d be in favor of the latter, no?
My own view is that there should indeed be soul-searching on all sides, within reason, and without inadvertently adding to the fame and glory of killers and terrorists.
“Dislike” is different from “Disagree”. “Dislike” is inarticulate and pointless without an explanation, so silence is best.
It is important that we find out the expressed motive.
I don't see how examining their lives, like we examined bin Laden's, adds any glory to the deeds of murderers and terrorists. Whoever wants to be inspired is already inspired by the deed. The rest of us who are normal cannot be guided by the preferences of miscreants and criminal wannabes. Understanding the banality of evil is part of the normal human experience. Denying it to us is pure parochialism.
Ditto
I'm not sure, my dear Hmmm, whether your comment was addressed to me, but it showed up in my email as though it had been. I do favor the publication of her statement.
Hey, Bobby. I think i was responding to someone else. I loved your comments and saw that you do favor publication.
I personally want a full post-mortem on that pile of rancid meat. From it’s hooved feet, up it’s rectum and all the way to what insects it ate. Straight from the pit of hell.
Head on a swivel, my southern brother.
We sure could use a good dose of Stonewall and Lee right now.
Lock and load.
No, I was responding to Elizabeth Anne.
Yep, the first thing I thought was "testosterone is one hell of a drug." We've had several cases of TiFs (trans-identified females) on exogenous T committing violence against others, usually women. Here's one case:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11727577/I-beaten-controlled-transgender-husband-physically-smaller-me.html
Interestingly, I am sure this shooting will be listed as a crime committed by a female. But if it had been a TiM (trans-identified male) who had done this, it would **also** have been listed as a crime committed by a female. Double standard there.
The shooter had not yet transitioned. The picture shows someone who still looks like a woman, and it's a good guess Audrey was still her legal name since that's the name the police released (presumably they got it off an ID on the body).
I was astounded when it was reported that a *woman* committed these crimes with a gun. Women don’t kill with guns. So is the Narrative now that “it’s bad if cismen murder with guns but understandable—and supportable— if trans-men on testosterone do”? Huh?
Well done.
I understand what Rod is saying here and share both his belief that the American MSM is possibly the most dishonest and malevolent force on earth as well as his wish that we could stop Living By Lies and have an honest conversation (whatever that may mean or entail) about this mass psychosis that has captured our institutions and is inflicting itself on impressionable (and often anxious & addled) children.
But I have to disagree on 2 points:
1) This moment of reckoning we imagine as one possible future outcome, where the Dems and the MSM and the activist groups etc come down to earth, admit they got carried away, and try to find a reasonable middle ground on issues surrounding Gender, is NEVER HAPPENING. First off, this would require admitting that conservatives were right, which is for liberals what chewing garlic is for vampires; also, they would have to accept some level of responsibility for child mutilation, which most people wouldn't admit to even in court.
And this also omits the theological aspect of all this: for worshippers of the Social Justice religion, Trans Rights are the most sacred rights of all, as they are the current reigning Victim class, as well as a perfect symbol of all modern Leftism: the heroic journey of the Marginalized Other overcoming Bigotry to achieve their True and Authentic Self™. The Trans Child is to the Left what the Christ Child is to Christians, the innocent who has arrived to cleanse away our sins and lead us to a better purer world, and they will no sooner relinquish their Holy Child than Christians will theirs.
2) Also, regardless of Trans etc or other issues, I just think it's a terrible idea to publish any manifesto or artwork etc of any mass murderer, for any reason, this only accedes to their demented wishes and glorifies their evil actions. People who commit these acts should be sentenced to Damnatio memoriae instead of awarded the glory of posthumous fame (which only encourages future aspiring mass murderers).
Are you saying Mein Kampf shouldn't be published?
Let the light of truth be the disinfectant, let us not be guided by fears and darkness and the impulse to hide.
I would never say a published book should be withdrawn or censored, and I'm pretty close to a free speech and free expression absolutist, I just think that publishing manifestos of deranged mass murderers will only encourage future aspiring mass murderers.
Maybe we can meet in the middle and say: publish your manifesto first, then go do your killing. But the cops have no obligation to provide posthumous fame.
But I can see both sides...
Are you arguing that the manifesto written by this shooting has the equivalent historical weight and significance as a book published by Hitler, a world leader who was extremely popular in the US prior to 1940, which helped launch his career?
is this for me? I try to steer clear of Godwin and his law.
No, sorry, it's intended for @emil.
yeah, i figured, these Substack lines are a bit confusing.
No, I am arguing against casual censorship increasingly employed these days for spurious reasons. The harm you are outlining of copycats following the killer's example is less salient to my mind than the harm of habituating censurious behavior. You are worried about a possibility. I am worried about a present reality, which is the impulse to hide the unpleasant truth, to shield us, for our own good. No, thank you. I can handle reading the words of a killer without becoming a killer myself, and if you cannot, there is something deficient about your approach, and society shouldn't cater to such fears. Instead of hiding the manifesto, we should be inviting society to face it squarely.
What "unpleasant truth"? In this case the truth is glaringly obvious, written in blood. Six innocent people, three of them children, were murdered. Would contemplating the the sick rantings of the depraved shooter somehow edify us? We don't need to step in sh!t to know we should avoid it.
Hitler was "extremely popular in the US prior to 1940". My dear, you have said the thing that is not.
I read a nasty little book once written by a militant german lesbian. It was titled “Mien Kramps”. Scary.
lol
Now the is something I might invade a country over.
😃
Unlike Mr. Lime's assertions, I quite like men. Rather too much at several points in my life. But there is no delight in the WORLD like watching men put on the Cramp Simulator after saying they thought women were exaggerating.
Especially when the woman in question is standing next to him with the simulator on the same setting, shrugging, while he sobs in a little curl on the floor.
Oooh. What is a cramp simulator? Im putting my xmas list together early.
Women are tough as nails.
Mein Kampf was published almost a century ago. That cat really is out of the bag.
Foundationally influenced by the Protocols of Zion.
Though... It was banned in Germany from after the war until just a few years ago. Oh, there certainly were old copies that could be found in granny's attic, because at one point, it was pretty much required that every household have one, but one almost had to go out of the country to see what was actually written, which unfortunately made a lot of people more curious to what it said rather than less.
Years ago, in high school and out of curiosity of course, I read parts of Mein Kampf at the public library and found it unreadable. Mein Kampf can't be compared to other unintelligible works of German letters and philosophy, like stuff coming from the pens of Nietzsche and Heidegger, which I read in college, albeit superficially. AH was a true dilettante, a mediocre artist and intellectual, whose failures in imperial Vienna ushered in a cataclysm that is still being felt today. I suspect Ms. Hale's manifesto, if we can call it that, will also highlight her failures and pathos as justification for the rage that was to follow.
Hale is a man.
Oops, I was wrong. How insane. Assigned female at birth, lunatics.
"The Trans Child is to the Left what the Christ Child is to Christians"
Very pithy and very accurate. Spot on analysis, I fear. They will not "realize their error". They must be forced out of power and into social (maybe physical) exile by the sane.
You can count the Jesuits out. They're too busy promoting transgenderism. Their magazine 'America' today is calling for the abolition of the Second Amendment.
There is such a betrayal from so many American institutions today. I don't know where we go from here. What will America look like in 20 years? Will we recognize it?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-pull-back-from-values-that-once-defined-u-s-wsj-norc-poll-finds-df8534cd?reflink=integratedwebview_share
I don't recognize it now.
20 years from now? After a total collapse into a godless state of pagan depravity (public copulation with kids and animals, live human sacrifice on tv shows like Survivor, rampant satanic worship), we will be easily brought to heel by China. Hard labor in work camps and serving tea to leaders of industry.
It is interesting to contrast the behavior of men in their forties and fifties from China or India with the behavior of men in America of the same age. Those cultures have their faults, but there is also a different feeling you get from those men - maybe a sense of responsibility, seriousness, or presence? - that you don't always get from American men, who all too often act like overgrown kids, wrapped up in meaningless things like being sports fans or playing around with expensive and shiny toys.
Absolutely true. Good point.
…now where did I put my GI Joe collection? 😃
The flip side is that a men from China or India you meet at that age came here with PhD's or similar high level training. They're serious people. The guys who sit out front of the local bar at 2 pm hollerin' at girls and scratching their cracks? Their equivalents exist. They just don't have the money or means to migrate. Even far from their barstool. ;)
Brutal existence. God help us.
Mmm, I'm not sure I would agree. I've known plenty of folks from India, fewer from China, but enough. Palestinians, others from the Middle East. A few Iranians. This was a vertical slice through social classes, majority and minority ethnicities, cultures, etc. There are always the idiots who will tie a can to the tail of a dog, as you point out, but there is that sense of serious purpose that seems to permeate those cultures that is gone from ours. Back in a prior life, I worked with people who went to gas stations owned by Indians. They would complain about how "those people" are stealing all the jobs over here, and taking over, but were the same kind of people who were lazy AF and would never compromise their personal comfort in favor of progress in their own lives or the lives of their families.
Who'd want people like that to work for them?
Who would want to work for whom?
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230327-how-young-people-are-shaking-off-gender-binaries
We are lemings. The killer was a male, by the way.
I mean female. To hell with all this.
You mean people who so hate their own essence that they would volunteer for multiple painful unnecessary surgeries, a lifetime of dependence to doses of hormones that would be considered malpractice if they were prescribed to cisgenders, and ongoing physically painful manipulation of their fake genitals to prevent their bodies from healing in order to maintain the charade might be willing to do violence to the bodies of other people?
I'll take "Observations that are so blindingly obvious that only an intellectual would deny their reality" for $200, Alex.*
*RIP
This tendency always has been present, from my own experiences in the homosexual subculture of Los Angeles decades ago. I was never abused or attacked, nor was anyone else I knew, except by overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies of jealousy. It is common that BDSM episodes get out of hand leading occasionally even to death. You might say now, that with the metastasized prevalence, that it is now literally on steroids. The propaganda is contributing to now being caught up either personally or as allies, or as the doxxed and silenced. Yet as a public advocate told me privately, contrary to his speeches, that he blamed himself for getting me into this unhappy lifestyle. I will also say that as I stared into the abyss, what stared back was the demonic. We recognize one another to this day.
Let me add a common meme, that what would be delicious if we could convert Christians' children to our side, following the same desire to corrupt that was expressed so well in The Picture of Dorian Grey, before Hollywood bowdlerized it to a schlock horror movie.
Actually, I think the movie is pretty good.
“I was never abused or attacked, nor was anyone else I knew, except by overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies of jealousy.”
I hear ya. Living here on the bay i have many gay affiliations. Some are sane and mind their manners. I do know people attacked and I personally have experienced many times what you described as “overwrought and emotional homosexuals in frenzies”.
Just two months ago, a longtime friend I grew up with (gay and always treated kindly by me) flipped out on me because i sent him one of Rod’s postings about Woke shit. I last saw him screaming at me at the top of his lungs late at night from his balcony in Richmond. He said that I was being brainwashed by satanic propaganda and that I should start attending Episcopal church. I replied, “You mean swap my devotion to Christ for the praise of heretics?”. He went APESHIT. I silently turned around, walked away, got in my car and drove away. Fini.
Glad that ended well. In my case, they didn't leave it alone but doxxed me with a false Wordpress website that caused financial ruin. Such is Woke World.
What?! That is horrific! How does that happen?
Freedom of Information Act request for the manifesto. Let some right-wing blogger or some such publish it - so long as it gets published, and we get to see the full "rationale" on display.
It absolutely will upend the sacred narrative.
Also, expect more like this, transgenders acting out.
Just to put down a marker, don't expect the manifesto to be released by Nashville PD as long as the imvestogation is considered "open." While it seems self- evident that the case is closed due to the death of the suspect, there's still a lot to be done.
1. Co- conspirators (if any exist/ are identified) will need to be investigated. If any are charged, then the manifesto will become evidence in their prosecutions, delaying any release further.
2. The officers who fired the fatal shots, while clearly justified to do so under the law, will have to be investigated and officially cleared. This will take weeks, if not months.
3. At some point the investigation will be closed. At that point the manifesto should be available. If it's not voluntarily released then, it should be obtainable through an open records request.
One way or another, the manifesto will eventually be released. It won't be quick, however.
And the inevitable lawsuits against everybody in a five mile radius.
What jumped out at me about this story was that the perpetrator was a woman. That's really weird, since 98% of all mass shooters are males (man-boys -- no real man would slaughter innocent people, but I digress.)
Based on that statistic alone, it is almost inconceivable that Audrey Hale's consumption of testosterone (in a futile attempt to remake her body) did not play a role in this shooting. Had Audrey Hale been given therapy instead of T, 6 people would likely still be alive today.
Again, we as yet have. no evidence that the shooter was on Testosterone. If she was, then yes, we have grounds to discuss that. Until then, you're making a lot of assumptions based on a single pronoun on a single social media site.
Again, it is an assumption that is likely true given the realities of the trans cult. The burden is on deniers like you to prove it isn’t so.
I guess that's true, Elizabeth, in light that "trans" doesn't really mean anything other than "I don't like my body". However, we will neer know if she was, since HIPAA prevents release of that sort of information. I would be extremely surprised if she were not.
Laurie Dann
She was the first school shooter in my memory, and for that reason, although weird, it doesn't seem like it would *have* to be a male perpetrator.
Rod, as a general rule the authorities do not release these kinds of things for the very good and useful reason that WE DO NOT WANT TO GLORIFY THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO LIKEWISE!!!! Please have some common sense on this. There's no "Christian bashing" over this incident in the US-- why do you think there is? Everyone is horrified and disgusted and yes, for the umpteenth time we're going round and round about gun control.
Putting an argument in all caps doesn't make it any more valid. Either it's a good argument or it's not. Shouting it doesn't make it any better or worse.
True but Rod is so far off the deep end on this matter that I am appalled by his demand. We should change long-standing practice and give heed to the (likely) unspooled rantings of a nutcase for the scoring of some political brownie points?
In antiquity some loon set fire to the temple of Artemis at Ephesus and when apprehended claimed he had done the deed so history would remember him. The city refused his wish and after putting him to death ordered that his name be stricken from every document and history of the event. This is the one good excuse I think there is for a true damnatio memoriae : to deny any fame, even ill fame, to someone who commits an appallingly evil act for the sake of that recognition. Of course such censorship is impossible in today's world but if it were possible I'd be quite glad to have this person be forever known as nothing more than "the mass murderer who shot up a church school"- name forever scrubbed from the record.
Edited; Okay, I skimmed the rest. It's about what i would expect you to say. Debating you requires a huge investment of time and energy I don't have and won't lead anywhere anyway. Just lay off the caps lock.
If the only way to ascertain the motive is contained in the 'manifesto', should that bit be made public?
The police can give us a summary of her motive. And really, why do we need it? Do you think it's likely to be something sane and sober that we should take seriously? I do not: sane people do not go on murder sprees targeting children. Nothing the shooter had to say can justify or explain that.
Yes, evidentiary matter should be public.
If there's a legal process-- a trial-- happening then I firmly and completely agree. Someone above noted that if there's accomplices to the act (probably there aren't, but if...) the manifesto would likely be needed in their trial, and yes it should be entered into public evidence then. But the only Judge this shooter is going to face is not of this world, and with that we must be content (God's judgment being perfect in all things we should be more than merely content)
Why are you assuming the act was committed for the sake of recognition?
I disagree with your conclusion. The killer was a mere fallen human, and remembering her exactly for who she was is about us, and our own capacity to learn something, not about her failures and evil deeds.
Do you think the names and legacies of all narcissistic fame-seeking monsters should be erased, or just this one?
Why look to depravity and evil? Our focus should rather be on saints and sages, heroes and martyrs, creators and inventors.