AI mimics intelligence the way a parrot mimics human language. You could maybe train a parrot to deliver the Gettysburg Address but the creature, though it's still vastly more complex and sophisticated than any human device, will have no idea what it's saying.
Thank you for confirming that you have no clue what Mind actually is-- do you really think networks of circuitry are conscious entities? Some people here are bashing Rod for being
superstitious" but your view strikes me as far more superstitious in that regard. AI is certainly designed the human mind-- but it is no such thing.
You're shifting into your typical strawman argument mode. Neither you nor I said anything in this thread about "mind" or AI being a conscious entity. Nothing I said would imply I had that belief, or relates to anything resembling superstition.
AI is NOT like a trained parrot mimicking words, since AI DOES understand what it is doing. It has the ability to learn and create on its own. That's why it can be used autonomously to write improved code, design new computer chips, etc.
You absolutely created your usual strawman, since my comment about AI understanding was made AFTER your strawman argument.
Yes, what I consider to be the strange/incredible aspect of AI is it's able to "understand" in a reasonable sense of the concept of understanding. Yet, it is not conscious awareness in the sense of the usual human application of that phrase.
We've both made our points, so I'm not engaging with you further (which is my default mode with you that I regret leaving).
Jon isnтАЩt wrong that chatpots have AI technology. However, it is generative AI chat bots like GPT-4 that people are talking (concerned) about because this technology (and quality varies based on a host of factors) has the ability, unlike a conventional chatbot, to not only train itself using prompts and trainers, but created new multi-modal content.
Jon seems to be of the opinion that demons/spiritual entities, despite all the numerous Biblical verses saying otherwise, are limited to messing with your mind, your thoughts. Anything beyond that is out of their reach. But that is completely unbiblical. No. That does not make them God or even gods. They are entities with their own set of abilities, but do not have a free hand in exercising them. They require permissions, from both God and mortal man to act beyond a certain boundary. Those who mess with the occult give them these permissions. If the occult had nothing to it, God would not give some of his strongest sanctions against. And again, the Biblical examples of the consequences of messing with that stuff, never mind th experiences of modern people underline the wisdom of those warnings.
Also, again, have to note, the "angel" Mohammed recieved his words from, those actions are all but identical to that of demons and the experiences some New Agers describe. And the method depicted is similar to spirit writing.
Also, interesting to note, those who experience "alien abduction" either have dabbled with the occult themselves, or someone close to them has.
Angels, those acting out God's will and in His good graces, first seek to put at ease those they communicate with. This is incrediblly consistent in Biblical accounts. And God never forces any communications on anyone. He leads those who seek Him. He does not "take over." He's really serious about free will. The opposition is not and will seek to oppress you whenever they can get away with it.
If it, whatever "it" is, hasn't personally happened to Jon then it didn't really happen to anyone else and anyone who is concerned about it happening is just being silly.
We agree far more than we disagree on this, but I am insisting that angels and demons are created beings and they obey laws of nature particular to them. They are not eternal; and they are certainly not gods, but rather they are subject to the sovereignity of God like everything else.
Once again, there is no debate about them being created beings. But them "obeying laws of nature", they are not material being. And yes, they are eternal. They do not age and do not have a lifespan.
Those things, them being supernatural and existing in a different state from the natural world does not make them gods, nor does it remove them from the sovereignty of God.
You assign a bunch of traits to them that cannot be Biblically backed up. And you add a bunch of assumptions both about them and about what I'm saying, that cannot be backed up Biblically or by anything I've said.
It is possible for a being to be supernatural, eternal (unless God decides otherwise, after all, WE are eternal, and were intended to be until the curse of sin came in. God intends to restore that), and posess various estoteric abilities, while at the same time not being a god and subject to the sovereignty of God. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
How do we know? The Bible says so.
Your insisting is not relevant here, Jon. What matters in these things is what God's Word says.
If you think comparing a customer service bot to current AI systems is valid, than I'd suspect you are not actually knowledgeable about AI.
AI mimics intelligence the way a parrot mimics human language. You could maybe train a parrot to deliver the Gettysburg Address but the creature, though it's still vastly more complex and sophisticated than any human device, will have no idea what it's saying.
Thank you for confirming you are not particularly knowledgeable about AI.
Thank you for confirming that you have no clue what Mind actually is-- do you really think networks of circuitry are conscious entities? Some people here are bashing Rod for being
superstitious" but your view strikes me as far more superstitious in that regard. AI is certainly designed the human mind-- but it is no such thing.
You're shifting into your typical strawman argument mode. Neither you nor I said anything in this thread about "mind" or AI being a conscious entity. Nothing I said would imply I had that belief, or relates to anything resembling superstition.
AI is NOT like a trained parrot mimicking words, since AI DOES understand what it is doing. It has the ability to learn and create on its own. That's why it can be used autonomously to write improved code, design new computer chips, etc.
When you say "AI understands" you are implying conscious awareness, so don't tell me I am creating a strawman.
You absolutely created your usual strawman, since my comment about AI understanding was made AFTER your strawman argument.
Yes, what I consider to be the strange/incredible aspect of AI is it's able to "understand" in a reasonable sense of the concept of understanding. Yet, it is not conscious awareness in the sense of the usual human application of that phrase.
We've both made our points, so I'm not engaging with you further (which is my default mode with you that I regret leaving).
Jon isnтАЩt wrong that chatpots have AI technology. However, it is generative AI chat bots like GPT-4 that people are talking (concerned) about because this technology (and quality varies based on a host of factors) has the ability, unlike a conventional chatbot, to not only train itself using prompts and trainers, but created new multi-modal content.
Jon seems to be of the opinion that demons/spiritual entities, despite all the numerous Biblical verses saying otherwise, are limited to messing with your mind, your thoughts. Anything beyond that is out of their reach. But that is completely unbiblical. No. That does not make them God or even gods. They are entities with their own set of abilities, but do not have a free hand in exercising them. They require permissions, from both God and mortal man to act beyond a certain boundary. Those who mess with the occult give them these permissions. If the occult had nothing to it, God would not give some of his strongest sanctions against. And again, the Biblical examples of the consequences of messing with that stuff, never mind th experiences of modern people underline the wisdom of those warnings.
Also, again, have to note, the "angel" Mohammed recieved his words from, those actions are all but identical to that of demons and the experiences some New Agers describe. And the method depicted is similar to spirit writing.
Also, interesting to note, those who experience "alien abduction" either have dabbled with the occult themselves, or someone close to them has.
Angels, those acting out God's will and in His good graces, first seek to put at ease those they communicate with. This is incrediblly consistent in Biblical accounts. And God never forces any communications on anyone. He leads those who seek Him. He does not "take over." He's really serious about free will. The opposition is not and will seek to oppress you whenever they can get away with it.
If it, whatever "it" is, hasn't personally happened to Jon then it didn't really happen to anyone else and anyone who is concerned about it happening is just being silly.
I admire Jon. I doubt I could put up with the pummeling he gets here, and Bobby Lime doesn't even exist.
We agree far more than we disagree on this, but I am insisting that angels and demons are created beings and they obey laws of nature particular to them. They are not eternal; and they are certainly not gods, but rather they are subject to the sovereignity of God like everything else.
Once again, there is no debate about them being created beings. But them "obeying laws of nature", they are not material being. And yes, they are eternal. They do not age and do not have a lifespan.
Those things, them being supernatural and existing in a different state from the natural world does not make them gods, nor does it remove them from the sovereignty of God.
You assign a bunch of traits to them that cannot be Biblically backed up. And you add a bunch of assumptions both about them and about what I'm saying, that cannot be backed up Biblically or by anything I've said.
It is possible for a being to be supernatural, eternal (unless God decides otherwise, after all, WE are eternal, and were intended to be until the curse of sin came in. God intends to restore that), and posess various estoteric abilities, while at the same time not being a god and subject to the sovereignty of God. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
How do we know? The Bible says so.
Your insisting is not relevant here, Jon. What matters in these things is what God's Word says.